Original A.F. vs Joe A.F?

[A.Schell]

my question to everyone is what is our take on the pre-duke action force line and how do you feel about the full integration of the gi joe characters [duke,scarlett,etc] over the original characters [skip,eagle,etc] even red shadow to cobra? for me i'm reading the comics for the first time and i'm loving the original characters, but i'm also finding that i like the a.f. joe guys more then the gi joe versions. do you feel for you it was a takeover or it was just the next wave of characters and thats that!

[The Baron]

It was a betrayal.

I actually boycotted the toys. Even at the age of ten I could see it was a ripoff to buy a new Whirlwind, APC, Command Centre, Wolverine, Sealion, Triad, Silent Attack Kayak, Dart, Lance, Shaft, Roboskull, Night Attack Jeep, Hyena, Escape Armour and FANG all for a variant sticker sheet.

I continued to read Battle Action Force though, but this was more for the ongoing Charley's War and Johnny Red strips than the new Action Force. It was fantastic how the writers kept bringing the original characters back in to the continuity - The Black Major refused to die for Palitoy and I love him for it.

The Marvel UK Action Force I generally regard as being GI Joe, it really has nothing to do with the Action Force that I collect. I certainly prefer the gritty realism of the IPC stories over the cartoony-nobody-dies fare from Marvel.

Bah.

[Shadow_Contact]

BAH, Nobody Dies!?! Hey that Saw-Viper Traumatized many a child after reading Joe #108. But then it's also where you grew up that dictates your like of stories, I find all the BAF stories fun but Hama's Joes are my universe.

[Lady Jaye]

I fully agree with Santa Baron!

As a kid I did not understand, still don't, that all American super hero crap. Half the world is blown to pieces, but not a single good guy gets a scratch? It just didn't make sense to me. In every battle men die.

[Chopper]

I was real pissed off when AF took the mantle. But I still loved Battle so kept reading. At that time in NZ it was VERY confusing, we could buy GI Joe comics (I didn't, they sucked), buy Toltoys Action Man 3 3/4 figures and read BAF. We never had Joe or AF figures at all. Real confusing.

I later warmed to BAF's portrayal of Duke etc. Like all BAF stories they tried to instil some realism. Probably due to the fact that Johnny Red and Charleys War etc had been such a huge part of the writers/artists lives. I kept going with it till I wound up in Australia and could no longer find copies of Battle. Probably a good thing considering Storm Force. I never saw the Joe invasion. Once I moved it was all Joe no Action Man.

But like the other guys, war kills. You have casualties even if they do wear red shirts. And Marvel was just plain wrong. Now I am reading them but I still don't think they stand up to BAF in any way. I don't mind the early stuff but some of the characters war just plain bullshit. One reason I liked SAS/Z/Q/Space forces is that they had realistic (to a point) characters using realistic weaponry. OK Space Force, Kraken, Red Jackal and Muton were a bit unbelievable. Compared to Serpentor and Cobra la la it wasn't

Incidentally I'm watching the old Joe cartoons atm. Marvel was MUCH better by comparison. I really can't believe that anyone watched this stuff. My 6yo son likes it tho I suppose. I would have killed for an AF cartoon, the possibilities could have been endless.

[A.Schell]

lol okay, lets not bash the 80's cartoon. its what brought me to the dance! for me i would have never gotten into the joe line if there wasn't a cartoon, yes i was brainwashed by the 22 minute toy ads. and now its just pure retro love. but now that i'm an old man the action force of yester year shows me what i was missing, even with the hama-verse joes. as for people not dying http://gijoe-comic.tripod.com/till.htm i don't think i was ready for sas type death, joe would have needed way more red shirts. i haven't read all the action force books but i haven't seen one code-named/toy die, i've seen henderson fall from a plane without a parachute, i've seen the kraken drowning sas guys but i haven't seen the skip or wheels bite it,or eagle and beaver snuffed. lol but who wants to see kirk or spock die in the old star trek show. i tell you what though i would not want to be on sas force, even though i find it to be one of the best forces in action force, unless your name is eagle your gonna get dead fast.

anyway thanks for answering my question, its nice to know i'm not the only one that see's the joes as a takeover. for the story i'm working on the joes were brought in over the original crew, just using the action force base as an over-seas hq, using the action force name as a way to not be looked at as the big oafs/americans and the original crew were downgraded to back-up/joe clean-up. once joe kinda died down the joe team left, leaving the original crew to pick up the pieces with half of there original budget and support. anyhow thats just the back story. i kinda just played on what really seems to have happened.
cheers
al

[Malcolm Orr]

It was a betrayal.

I actually boycotted the toys. Even at the age of ten I could see it was a ripoff to buy a new Whirlwind, APC, Command Centre, Wolverine, Sealion, Triad, Silent Attack Kayak, Dart, Lance, Shaft, Roboskull, Night Attack Jeep, Hyena, Escape Armour and FANG all for a variant sticker sheet.

I continued to read Battle Action Force though, but this was more for the ongoing Charley's War and Johnny Red strips than the new Action Force. It was fantastic how the writers kept bringing the original characters back in to the continuity - The Black Major refused to die for Palitoy and I love him for it.

The Marvel UK Action Force I generally regard as being GI Joe, it really has nothing to do with the Action Force that I collect. I certainly prefer the gritty realism of the IPC stories over the cartoony-nobody-dies fare from Marvel.

Bah.

Yeah, the Battle AF stories have their roots in the WW2 stories - just check out the huge omnibuses in the shops like Borders. Reading them again now, they are a cracking read.

The Marvel UK ones are a totally different genre - certainly more modern in nature (even today they aren't that dated) but less gritty and realistic.

Whilst Eagle and Skip fought armies on battlegrounds on differnet continents (generally), Flint led his unit into the streets of London or Morrocco, and Cobra were more terrorists than an army.

I prefer AF Marvel UK with Flint, but really one isn't 'better' than another, I think, as they are completely different genres.

[Crimson Rage]

I was soooo pissed off when "Cobra" came into the mix and all my favourite forces suddenly vanished to be replaced by oddly dressed ersatz interlopers. The REVENGE OF THE RED SHADOWS story got me really excited, but I was subsequntly disappointed by their infrequent appearances afterwards. I'm so glad the BLACK MAJOR survived too. He was way too cool to kill!

Over the years I got into the 'new' figures, but as GI JOE toys, not AF ones. For ACTION FORCE I always regard the originals as the real deal. Even in the comic the stories featuring the four forces just seemed more 'mature' somehow. LONDON IN PERIL for example is a fun read, but still seems a pale copy of the utterly brilliant OPERATION CLAYMORE, and the idea of a story like THE ULTIMATE CRIME taking place in the first AF era is just unthinkable.

And I hated the Marvel UK AF stories - The art was competant but soooo bland and the stories seemed so low key & dull. Even when there were big battles (which didn't seem very often), things never felt 'big' or even remotely dangerous.

[Chopper]

After starting on the catalogues and post BAF stuff I have come to regard anything before 1990 as kosher. After that and the cobra la etc, nope. GI Joe is a different team even to AF. I like your back story tho al. With a bit of tweaking it could work. There are ways to sort the name changes etc.

I always saw AF as the hit and run specialists and GI Joe as the infantry primarily for tackling the US Cobra problem. Meanwhile AF are still sorting out the Black major and the Euro Cobra's.

I watched a Sigma 6 episode last night, now THATS not bad.

[A.Schell]

After starting on the catalogues and post BAF stuff I have come to regard anything before 1990 as kosher. After that and the cobra la etc, nope. GI Joe is a different team even to AF. I like your back story tho al. With a bit of tweaking it could work. There are ways to sort the name changes etc.

glad ya like my backstory idea the stuff about them being downgraded/clean-up crew for joe is more for the comedy bits. if i was doing a serious story i would probably just pretend the joe stuff never happened. just have action force and red shadows co-exist if you must with joe and cobra.and have the three-way battle with a non-cc convert baron ironblood in control of red shadows. the worlds big enough for two would-be world conquerors.

really they kinda had destro have the red shadows with the iron grenadiers, just imo not as cool.

oh and the cobra la thing was just in the cartoon, but can we really hate it that much it gave us such a cool theme song for cobra [sans the la] lol i remember getting the three pack of them for christmas...wtf!?